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Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
10
   |
Posted - 2017.04.23 21:59:55 -
[1] - Quote
It is really annoying how easy suicide ganking is and that it has basically no consequences. Its basically a zero risk activity, the worst that can happen is that you do your math wrong and don't bring enough alts to destroy your target or you will be unlucky and you don't get any worthy loot (if the purpose of the sucide gank is to make a profit).
I do not care that some players are multiboxing 10+ alts for sucide ganking. I don't care they all attack simultaneously. But I do not think its right that they can live in highsec with -9.9 security status thats just nonsense.
My proposal:
1) Disallow notourious criminals from docking in citadel stations. Force them to require other players or alt or to raise their security status if they want to trade in highsec. If they want to hide they have to use an upwell structure. Following current sec status and high-sec faction police mechanics, -2.0 or lower? forget docking in Jita. -4.5 you won't be able to dock in Uedama. etc.
Alternatively, "notorious criminal" = -5.0 and lower.
2) No rookie/noob ship for criminals. Player docking or respawning with criminal status should not get a free rookie ship in high-sec space stations. Force criminals to obtain frigate/shutle if they want to pull CONCORD from the gank point or to wait the criminal timer and then commit new criminal act before station to do it (and wait 15min more). (Obviously we cannot prevent them for keeping a home station in high-sec so they could respawn there...)
This suggestion probably could use some modifications because its probably not a good idea not to give a ship replacement to the newbie player who somehow attacks someone else in highsec from curiosity/stupidity and become a criminal. Maybe it should apply to "notorious criminals" only.
3) No citadel immunity for notorious criminals and players with criminal status. Force them to be docked in citadel before gank. Not to stay outside pre-aligned already.
This three changes will give high-sec residents higher controll over well known criminals who keep ganking every day. Unless they invest time or ISK to fix their security status they will be banned from stations leaving them the onlxy option of player owned citadels. Citadel owners might decide they dont want to allow well known gankers to operate from their citadel so they ban them from there as well. Result - they will have to get their own citadel. This also can create a player oriented content about "allow gankers to use your citadel or we will wardec you" or "disallow gankers to use your citadel or we wardec you" etc. |
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
10
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 22:22:53 -
[2] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Stopped reading when i read the first lie. Couldn't even get past the first line.
Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow.
Just another suicide ganker that will protect his activity by all cost.
I suicide ganked several ships myself. -0.2 sec hit lmao! And my victims didn't even knew that they can activate killright on me - like that would change anything - I fly through highsec almost always with suspect anyway.
Killed bunch a newbies their Leopard for lulz. Got to say it was very hard to do and very expensive too!  |
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
10
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 23:05:14 -
[3] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:I am a carebear, however I do agree that the consequences are rather nothing more then a feeble attempt by CCP to make it look like there is some teeth to a paper tiger, the addition of tags that people turn in to gain sec status...bah, there is nothing with teeth.
That being said, there is no growth by the grazers if there is no reason to fear the predator, however the folks who are -9.9 and others are not really predators, they are bored e-warriors, but like all things there must be something for them to stroke themselves over, if you adjust you game play you mostly won't have any issues, if I was a -9.9 I would expect more teeth out of the cops, since its just the way it is now I have no need to play as a criminal because I don't have to learn to survive off the land and meet others because it's not challenging enough to explore the criminal world when you can just buy tags to get back in good with the cops, true criminals would live in the frontier bushwacking folks for survival, lazy gankers...they don't learn anything but rinse and repeat.
thing is they do not even bother buy tags - sure some of them do and if they do, then they will have NO PROBLEM with my suggestions because they won't affect them
But most of them don't do it because they don't have to do it. They stay tethered before citadel pre-aligned on gate they want to gank at and they do not risk faction police to show up and nobody can attack them (but they can attack any possible intruder that would want to try bump them because its their citadel that won't give him the tether). Granted - its their citadel, but its still workaround the intented mechanics of clone soldier tags and security status. Because that would make the continuous suicide ganking much more expensive right? |
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
11
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 16:39:36 -
[4] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Don't be stupid and don't get ganked.
HOLY CRAP!!!
This is not about me getting suicide ganked and crying over forums LOL. Check my char, check my corp you see I lost nothing to suicide ganker about a half a year. I learned how to avoid them - after all they seek only weak and clueless as was said and thats fine and that is not my concern here.
I actually became occassional suicide ganker using alt character so it doesn't hurt my bussiness over there.
Its **** easy and there are absolutely no risks. Especially if you do not do it for profit but for lulz.
Stop posting your nonsenses all of you sucide gankers. This is not a thread about removing highsec ganking from the game - none of my suggestions will do that.
My suggestions only cause a major annoyance to gankers who ABUSE the mechanics and live in highsec with -9.9 security status.
Thats not how this should work. Clone soldier tags were created for a reason. If you want to live in highsec without restrictions then you need to fix your security status with tags.
Right now what? Even with -9.9 you can dock in any station on highsec and hide or trade. You are not being shot by sentry/concord, only by faction police that cannot hurt you if you travel through warp to zero. Using fast to warp ship nobody will catch you in highsec either and unlike lowsec, the chance there is someone waiting with instalock in pretty much zero. I fly through highsec with suspect all the time. Even if someone actually catch me at gate with dis my ship is fast enough to jump back to gate or to fly from range and continue. Tornado gankers in highsec doesn't care about criminals/suspects either - they wait for wealthy indy to oneshot him and they usually camp only till 1j from tradehubs.
Killrights do not affect them in slightest - they are -9.9 anyone can shoot them without need to activate it anyway. And they do not get shoot at until they arive on the grid to kill the prey they seeked.
The only thing they can't do in highsec is to rat or do missions. Which is laughable as ratting in highsec doesn't provide good profit anyway and l4 missions are everywhere not in highsec. That is - if they were actually doing them. But they do not. They are (mostly) alts to remove any consequences or risks.
So tell me, what do suicide gankers risks?
You know you lose your ship so you use the cheapest and strongests options - thats not a risk.
Security status loss doesn't affect you either - you gank with alt unconnected to your real operations so you are fine with that and it doesn't bother you. Also it can't be worse than -9.9 and the consequences are all the same and laughable.
You can't be shot at when tethered (or docked) pre-gank.
If there are multiple anti-gankers sitting in gate1 with blackbirds, all you need to do is to move your activity to gate2. You dictate where the gank happens, not them.
You use a neutral alts to scan ships on the route. You use neutral alts to warp-to the target to zero range. You use neutral alts to bump the freighter. You use neutral alts to pick up the loot. Again - no risks there, you are avoiding any risks of this activity via alts. I do not mind this is a game of alts and this is not my concern anyway.
So?
are you actually risk anything other than your target will survive?
Can you answer me this?
And - assume my suggestions will get in effect. It still won't force you to fix your status. You can stay docked in citadel of yours (or rather your neutral alt as always to avoid risks right). Then undock and fly to gate and gank. Then you can self-destruct your capsule or get destroyed to respawn in npc station and buy a shuttle, undock and pull off concord like you do now. If you need to hide you can hide at citadel. If you will want to avoid buying clone soldier tags then you will still be able to, it will just be *** annoying to do it. |
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
11
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 17:48:37 -
[5] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
And no you clearly do not think it is fine that suicide ganking is GÇ£fineGÇ¥ otherwise you would not be suggesting a nerf and an indirect buff to being stupid.
I do not think it is fine to basically live in high-sec with -9.9 security status. It makes no sense that the empire/system/npcs call it whatever allows you do use all their features completely ignoring the fact you have heavy criminal.
Btw neither you nor Daichi Yamato did answer my question.
Nevermind. I know how these forums works and who posts here. You will protect your own agenda for all costs no matter if someone actually have a point or not. Logic nor common sense doesn't apply here.
I have another way to prove my point. Didn't want to go that route but if thats the way CPP can notice something isn't alright then so be it. 
Now I am done talking here it leads no nowhere - you are not even willing to read what I wrote. Now I go ingame and make a plan B. |
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
11
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 22:58:05 -
[6] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:I'd consider accepting docking restrictions now that we have citadels, but not without a trade.
I'd be willing to support restricted docking for criminals if and only if faction police and customs ships stopped attacking ctiminals.
The creep towards a safer highsec must be stopped. And what about the market? And if you say, "That's what alt's are for," then it is a bad idea automatically.
Just to clarify - I did not suggested to restrict the ability to buy/sell in high-sec. How would that be done anyway? And there is no need to. When criminals won't be able to dock in high-sec they would have to choose if they:
- fix their sec status to get the items from Jita 4-4
- use public courier contract to move them from 4-4 to citadel where is criminal allowed to dock or lowsec
- contract the items on alt/friend/etc who will move them from 4-4 to citadel or lowsec again
EDIT (similar wise if they want to sell something - once its in station they can sell it remotedly
So either more annoyance if the criminal wants to do that alone using alts. Or more content if he choose to use the other options.
Also - since there is no way to prevent criminals to have a home station in high-sec they should be allowed to buy ship and stuff in case they appear there after losing clone or jump there. |
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
12
|
Posted - 2017.04.25 05:26:27 -
[7] - Quote
Lothros Andastar wrote:Show me on the doll where the mean gankers touched you.
here |
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
12
|
Posted - 2017.04.25 12:19:02 -
[8] - Quote
Jubilum wrote:I totally agree with the OP. Consequences for suicide ganking need to be much higher. I'm am in no way suggestion to eliminate ganking, but there needs to be a real punishment for doing it, besides loss of a cheap ship, and a hit to sec. status.
Their pods are empty and we do not lose skillpoints now for losing pod so that would not mean much. Possibly, there could be a small timer before criminal be allowed to warp his pod so there would be a chance to catch his pod and get at least some kind of satisfaction but thats it.
As for timer, there is already one and thats 15 minutes. For this time undocking with ship will lead to losing it again. I don't think the timer needs to be increased. Ganking is a legit gameplay and those who want to do it shouldn't be forced to wait one full hour before being able to play further. Also it can be workarounded by alts anyway (and its already happening) so it has no sense. |
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
21
|
Posted - 2017.04.30 10:39:25 -
[9] - Quote
I'm sorry I didn't notice that someone actually posted a constructive reply to my suggestions and noticed it just now when someone game me a like and I clicked on it. So a bit late but I am going to reply.
Black Pedro wrote:Of course this is not true at all. Highsec criminals suffer pretty much all the consequences, and they are so harsh that basically no one but career criminals even think of shooting another player in highsec illegally. The 'outlaw' character can do nothing in highsec but move about in fast-aligning ships, loses any PvP engagement within seconds if you just get a point on them thanks to infallible NPCs, and is forced to pay a cost to even attempt to attack another player in the form of their ship.
You are wrong. The penalties for suicide gank in highsec are really laughable. -0.2 security hit (same as in lowsec) and 15 minute "calm down" timer for which you need to stay in station are nothing but harsh. I am by no means suicide ganker, but I did it few times either to for nice killmail or to deal with spies. Obviously when I went to kill the spy in our system I didn't use my main character, but an alt but -0.2 is really nothing and if it provides nice killmail (think of leopard) I will do it with my main character.
Yes sure killrights are a thing but - if they put too high killright like 100mil then unless you fly something in that value nobody is going to waste money for it. And if its too low then you can abuse alt and pay for it yourself and you lose nothing but noob ship.
The penalties starting to be harsh when you do it repeatedly. That means 10 ganks till you notice anything (if you start doing it with 0.0sec) and then you will be hunted by faction police in 1.0. But, there are ways how to fix this. Clone Soldier tags, or just ratting for general. Currently suicide gankers do neither because they don't need to. The penalties aren't that harsh for them because they are alts who do not want to do anything in highsec other than ganking.
Black Pedro wrote:
Both ideas do very little to organized ganking operations and yet have serious downsides for newer/solo/inexperienced players. I do think the idea of pirate hideaways is conceptionally a badass one, but it would require more thought and changes than this.
Fair point. Prevent docking might not be so good idea afterall...
Black Pedro wrote:
One of the design goals of Upwell structures was to provide 'feature parity' with the outgoing POSes. The tethering mechanic gives the same sort of in-space protection that the POS force field did. Criminals (and everyone else) have nothing new that they didn't have already with POSes in the tethering mechanic and I see no reason why certain players should lose intended functionality from the structures just because another player wants to shoot them. What is good for the goose is good for the gander and if haulers get to align safely next to an Upwell structure then so should those trying to shoot haulers. Anything else just smacks of asking the builders of the sandbox to tilt the game in your favour.
This was already disproved. The tether and faction police immunity is a new thing that wasn't there before.
Black Pedro wrote:
More importantly, if criminals are using an Upwell structure to stage out of and you object, CCP has kindly given you a mechanism to impose your will on them: wardec and explode that structure. There is no problem here that you can't already fix yourself.
Not really. The citadel doesn't belong to the ganking characters but their alts (or main characters). Thus wardeccing the citadel owner will result in a war with entities a new corp has no chance to beat. Meanwhile gankers will still operate there while you will attempt to siege owners completely ignoring you - they still get their tether and immunity to faction police.
You know game of alts.
Black Pedro wrote:
So in short, -1. These ideas largely do nothing to open windows of player interaction (or are just plain unfair), and just pile more NPC enforced consequences on criminals that would impact disproportionately on players other than highsec ganking operations. I am all for a re-imagining of how highsec crime works to something that increases player agency and interaction, but more tedious "consequences" that give haulers even less reason to pay attention and hurt non-gankers in the process is not that.
I'm stepping down from docking restriction. Its perhaps logical thing to do, but it would indeed very negatively affected newbies who perhaps attack someone's capsule because of dumb and get -5.0. For them, current penalties are enough already.
But tell me how removing the citadel tether for characters -5.0 and less will be a problem? |
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